DKP System (25-man Loot Rules)

Overview

The Grim Legion uses "Dragon Kill Point" (DKP) system for the awarding of loot from 25-man raids that are part of our active raid cycle. DKP was implemented for a variety of reasons, some of which follow:

• Enable us to progress through end-game content
• Insure that loot is equitably distributed with minimal drama
• Loot tends to go to members that participate regularly
• Mains are geared and equipped for their primary role as a priority
• As a secondary priority, mains on respec reels get gear for their respec reel role

Earning DKP

The Base DKP Value

For every Tier of raid gear, we will define a base DKP value, N. This is used to determine awards. The current values of N are:

• Tier 10: N = 5

Ways to Earn

Raids on our 25-man raid cycle allow you to earn DKP. The following DKP awards are possible:

• On time DKP: if you are in the raid, ready to go on time, you get N DKP, even if you are asked to sit out.
• Kill DKP: if you are there for the kill of a raid boss, you get N DKP for every piece of gear he drops, or DKP = N x (number of items dropped)
• Progression Boss DKP: sometimes we will spend a protracted amount of time trying to down a new boss but not succeed. To reward that effort, the officers may award DKP equivalent to a regular boss kill, or DKP = N x (number of items that could drop)
• First Kill Bonus DKP: The first time (ever) that our guild downs a boss, all members present get bonus DKP as if the boss dropped one more item, or N DKP.
• Wrap up DKP: at the scheduled end of the raid night, we award N DKP to all raiders still present.

Point Cap

Earned points are capped at 500 DKP.  In practice, we just let the points accumulate and trim people down to 250 DKP when they pay for an item, to reflect what they would have spent if they were at 500 DKP; it works out the same and requires a lot less work from the loot master. There is also a negative cap; this will be discussed under "Loot Distribution".

Rationale: While we want to have a DKP system that generally rewards actually showing up to the raids regularly, we also don't want to shut out people by allowing regular players to acquire an absurd amount of DKP.

Points Accumulate Per Player, Not Character

All DKP is assigned to a player’s main character.  Any DKP earned or spent by an alternate character will be added or removed from the main character’s total and that value will be used to determine priority. This applies to guest raiders, but it is up to them to identify their alts for proper attribution of points.

Calculating the Cost of an Item

The costs of items are maintained by in loot tables on the Web DKP site.

The Base Cost Formula

All items have a base cost calculated as follows:

Base Cost = (ItemLevel - 1.3) / 1.3 * SlotValue

Using the following values for SlotValue:

• Head: 1.0
• Neck: 0.54
• Shoulder: 0.74
• Back: 0.54
• Chest: 1.0
• Wrist: 0.54
• Hand: 0.74
• Waist: 0.74
• Legs: 1.0
• Feet: 0.74
• Finger: 0.54
• Trinket: 0.68
• Two-Handed Weapon
  • Non-Hunters: 1.5
  • Hunters are 1/2 cost, but lose priority to Melee: 0.75
• One-Handed Weapon
  • Non-Hunters: 1.0
  • Hunters are 1/2 cost, but lose priority to Melee: 0.5
• Offhand "Frill" (not weapons or shields): 0.52
• Shield: 0.65
• Gun, Bow, Crossbow
  • Hunters: 1.5
  • Non-Hunters are 1/3 cost, but lose priority to Melee: 0.5
• Thrown, Wands: 0.5
• Relic (Idol, Libram, Sigil, Totem)-> 0.3

Rationales & Citation

We did not come up with these formula, but we like them. They accomplish a lot of things we like:

• More valuable gear costs more
• Tier gear costs more

In terms of giving credit, I have no idea who originally came up with the base system, but a similar approach is in use by numerous guilds. If you know the original author, please let me know and I will be happy to give them credit.

Our key changes to this were the special cases that address the differing need, cost, and priority for Hunters vs. Non-Hunters on certain items (in our opinion).

Seeing How Much DKP You Have Via The Internet

We currently use a service and addon called WebDKP to help us manage DKP. You can always check the Grim Legion's WebDKP page to see your current DKP awards as well as lifetime DKP, loot awarded, etc. For convenience, a link to WebDKP is present in the sidebar of every page of the main web site, including the front page.

Note: The DKP from a given run will not be reflected on the WebDKP site until the Loot Master logs out and synchronizes their data.

Seeing How Much DKP You Have In-Game

During a raid in which DKP is used, raid members can whisper the WebDKP administrator to automatically whisper them back with certain DKP information, using the following commands:

• !help - sends them a list of commands
• !dkp - sends the person who whispered you their current dkp
• !list - Lists the dkp of everyone in your current group
• !listall - Lists the dkp of everyone in your dkp table

The two list commands can have class names append to them to limit them to certain classes. For example:

• !list hunter - Shows the dkp of all the hunters in the current group
• !listall hunter rogue - Shows the dkp of all the hunters and rogues in the guild

Illustration: If Joeblow was doing WebDKP that night, then "/t Joeblow !dkp" would return a whisper with your current DKP.

Loot Distribution

What Happens When the Loot Drops

After a boss is killed, the following should happen:

1. Clear Ventrilo - Ventrilo channel should be kept free so that the Loot Master can coordinate loot distribution.
2. Leave any loot chests to the Loot Master - If there is a chest to be looted, please leave it alone so that the Loot Master can access the items
3. The Loot Master will link all of the loot into Raid chat
4. Tier Items (and Tier-related items, like Trophy of the Crusade) will be awarded
5. Remaining gear will be awarded

Each award will happen more or less in the following fashion:

1. The Loot Master will link the item being awarded in Raid chat
2. Everyone interested will express their interest by either declaring "main" or rolling for the gear
3. The Loot Master will countdown from 5 to 1.
4. If no "main" is declared, those that rolled are expected to communicate their priority in Raid chat, e.g., typing out "Respec Reel", "Off Main", "Greed", or "Looks"/"RP".
5. The gear is awarded.
6. The DKP, if any, are charged

Don't Run Away - WebDKP Requires Proximity

If you get more than ~50 yards away from the kill, it can prevent the WebDKP addon from functioning properly and delay the raid as the Loot Master manually awards the DKP.

Teleporting Complicates Looting

When you teleport in the middle of someone trying to use a pulldown window in WoW, it can cause that pulldown to close. Please avoid teleporting when gear is being handed out.

AFK Responsibly

Unscheduled AFKs during a raid are already troublesome. Be sure it does not complicate the timely and fair distribution of loot.

• Do not AFK if you want loot - If you AFK and miss loot, it's your fault
• If you AFK, please state that you are going AFK *and* that you do not want loot - Don't hold up 24 other people that are delaying loot to give you a chance to come back and compete for it

Priorities

Our priorities are spelled out on our Loot Policy Page. A brief recap follows:

Note: we define priority in terms of role (Tank, Caster/Ranged DPS, Melee DPS, Healer), not a specific Talent spec.

1. "Main" - Gear that is appropriate for your Main's class and primary role, e.g., a Tank wanting a Tank weapon. This is the only gear for which you pay DKP.
2. "Respec reel" - Gear that is appropriate for your Main's respec reel role (assuming you have one), e.g., a Tank that is on the Melee DPS reel that wants a melee DPS piece of armor.
3. "Sidegrade" - Gear that could be useful for better itemization or a spec change for your Main's class and primary role, and for which you already have higher item level items that would normally cost you DKP for every slot it can occupy.
4. "Off Main" - Gear that is not appropriate for your Main's class and primary role, but is still an upgrade for your primary role, e.g. a Hunter wanting Leather or a Rogue wanting a Tanking sword (presumably, they have a very crappy weapon).
5. [Alternate characters, applying the same 1-3 priorities above among competing alts.]
6. "Greed" - Gear that a Main could use for an alternate role (NOT their primary role) but is not on a respec reel for that role, e.g. a Tank that is NOT on the melee DPS respec reel that wants a melee DPS piece of gear*
7. "Looks" or "RP" - Gear solely for looks or Role-Playing purposes. We prefer if people don't take gear for this that can be useful to them. We also ask people to not invoke this frequently.

You Only Pay For "Main" Gear

In our DKP system, anything that is not "main" gear for you is free, but you lose priority to others for whom it is main. This includes "respec reel", "off main", gear for alts, "greed", and "Looks"/"RP" gear.

For Hunters and Melee, we have a splitting of main priority levels. For Hunters, melee weapons are "stat sticks". For Melee, Ranged weapons are stat sticks. So, we split the "main" priority they have. We give melee priority on melee weapons, and we give Hunters priority on Ranged Weapons, specifically Guns, Bows, and Crossbows. However, those with reduced priority also enjoy a reduced cost.

Special Case - 25-man Only Turn-In Items

Throughout the history of World of Warcraft, there have been some raid bosses that drop an item that you turn in as a quest. The rewards vary for the turn-in, as would the costs, but the officers get together and agree on a reasonable averaged amount to charge. For such items, we have everyone roll that is interested in the item and it costs a fixed amount of DKP. If the same item can be obtained in 25-man and 10-man content, then there is no cost.

Note: In our current progression content (the 25-man raids for which we save our lockouts), there are no examples of this. The Head of Onyxia is the only item that comes close but, since the same item can be obtained 10-man Onyxia, we are not charging DKP for this in 25-man Onyxia.

Special Case - Trophy of the Crusade

With the implementation of Tier 9 raiding gear, Blizzard introduced the Trophy of the Crusade. Currently, we handle this like any other item of gear. Priority is determined normally, with the added requirement that the person in question must have enough Emblems of Triumph to purchase the item that they intend to buy with the Trophy of the Crusade. We are applying a fixed cost of 250 DKP for the Trophy of the Crusade.

Special Case - Identical Items That Drop in Both 10- and 25-man Raids

In the case that a given item drops in both 10- and 25-man versions of a raid and is identical in both cases (same item level, abilities, etc.), the item will not cost any DKP. Because they do not cost DKP, DKP has no impact on priority. 10-man loot rules would be in effect and we would simply roll for the item as though we were in a 10-man raid (see the 10-man Raid Loot Rules section of our Loot Policy).

Sidegrades and Saving Useful Items from Being Sharded

We hate to shard useful stuff just as much as anyone else. This is why we have a multifaceted priority system. However, there are still times when a useful item might get sharded when it could be useful to someone. We want folks to get useful gear without gaming the system or unfairly impoverishing themselves by blowing DKP repeatedly for a given slot for same level items. To avoid this, we have developed the following rules.

If the following are *all* true, you can compete for an item as a free sidegrade:

• The loot in question is one for which you would normally pay DKP (an item for your main role)
• You already have an item, of an equal or higher Item Level, for which you would normally pay DKP in every slot that said loot can occupy
• No one wants the item for main or respec reel[/list]

This naturally places sidegrades just above greed and off main. Some examples follow:

Case 1 - Items that can only occupy one slot: Pat the Holy Priest has an IL 245 item for their Leg slot. It is itemized in a way that would require them to pay DKP for it. A raid boss in our current content drops a nice pair of IL 245 (or lower) Cloth Healer pants. No one wants it for main or offset. Pat would like them because they are better itemized for Pat's current spec. Pat gets the pants for free.

Case 2 - Items that can occupy two slots: Later that night, a nice IL 245 (or lower) Trinket drops that is itemized for Healing. Pat has an IL 245 Trinket and an IL 232 Trinket. Even if Pat declares the intent to replace the IL 245 Trinket, Pat would not be able to obtain the item as a sidegrade because Pat has a Trinket slot for which the item is an upgrade. The same would be true of rings as well as "One-handed" weapons that can occupy either hand; the loot could not be declared a sidegrade if it was an upgrade for *either* weapon. However, in the case of a "Main Hand" or "Off-Hand" only weapon, then only that slot would be considered, as it cannot occupy more than one slot.

Case 3 - 1H vs. 2H Weapons: Jan the DPS Warrior has an IL 245 Two-Handed Weapon and raids with Arms, a spec that requires/supports Two-Handed Weapons. Toni the Rogue has two IL 245 One-Handed Weapons. An IL 245 (or lower) One-Handed Weapon drops. No one wants it for main or respec reel. Jan would like it for a Fury set and Toni would like it for a different weapon specialization. Both are motivated by wanting to be prepared for class mechanics changes or raid population changes that may require them to change their spec. Both have items that would consume DKP. Both have no immediate need for the item. Jan and Toni would have equal priority for it and thus would roll to see who gets it for free. The important thing to note is that if you have, for example, an IL 245 2H you can declare sidegrade on a MH or OH item that is IL 245 or less, but you have to have BOTH a MH and OH item of IL 245 or greater to declare sidegrade on a 2H of IL 245 or less.

Don't Hoard DKP

We want our raids to be strong. That means gearing up our people instead of sharding gear. Please don't pass up upgrades in the hopes of getting a certain special upgrade. Please make a reasonable effort to insure that useful upgrades are not sharded.

Hoarding Tax

To encourage people to spend their DKP, as well as help keep DKP levels competitive, any time your DKP is more than twice the cost of an item, you will pay half of your DKP for it. Another way of wording this is - you pay the calculated cost of the item or half of your DKP, whichever is more.

Normally, this would mean an item would cost no more than 250 DKP. However, in a raid, you will earn DKP and capping your DKP (500 DKP) constantly during the raid is an excessive burden. So, if you are capped and win an item, the Loot Master will charge whatever will bring you to 250 DKP, to reflect a capped person paying half.

Transferring DKP Between Tiers

There will be times when the transfer of DKP between tiers will be allowed.  In such cases, the rules are simple:

• Points can only be transferred to a higher tier
• Points are transferred to the next higher tier at a ratio of 10:1
• Only earned points can be transferred; one cannot go negative by transferring

Closing Thoughts

Like Every Loot System, This Is Not Perfect, But We Like It

This is our loot system, we tweaked it to satisfy the concerns we have and in practice it has worked out very well. Collectively, hundreds of hours were spent creating and refining this DKP system over time. While we are always eager to hear intelligent suggestions, we have critically evaluated and re-evaluated it many times and we really are not interested in significantly changing it, so manage your expectations when making suggestions on this topic.

Fair warning. :)